|
|
Post by Munda UK Da on Jan 12, 2010 23:45:08 GMT
First fair play to Sonia for actually getting up and doing something, its easy for us to sit here and say she should have done this that and the other - like someone else said she has got the subject raised and into the limelight which is more than any of us who have posted on here have ever done.
Second, the BBC being a tax payers department were never going to call the Indian govt out on their genocide so everyone needs to forget that, we need to remember this show would have been heavily edited to reduce it to an hours worth of TV - I agree it should have been a 2 or 3 parter, personally I think they could have done part 1 from the govt point of view (whatever that was other than it being an unprovoked attack on Sikhs), part 2 from the point of view of the Sikhs and then with a third part they could have got some sort of a neutral view or something.
As for Sonia changing her name, I think it was a bit stupid of her to even bring that up cus she was always going to get slated for it. personally I think there is nothing to stop her changing it back as she is recognised for both her voice and how she looks so no one would really get confused!
I never saw the Sikh Channel debate but from what I gather it was a lot of Sonia bashing, like someone else if they think the job she did was so bad then they should put something together themselves. I think the Sikh Channel programming needs to be looked at in general, if I was there I would have shows dedicated to The Gurus first of all, showing the message they portrayed alongside shows about 1984 and other historical events that are important to Sikhs. I do not want to come across as saying that stop all the Kirtan and Kathas but I think there should be more shows to the youth - the people who are going to take the baton on as it where (dare say it I am sure I could benefit from such programming), but its too easy for them to sit there and slate people who have tried to do something.
anyone who takes the BBC show as the holy grail of 1984 needs to wake up and read more.
Yes Sant Ji was at the Darbaar Sahib, but why should he not have been allowed to be in the House of God, he wasn't preaching about overthrowng the govt or carrying out suicide missions, he was there because as a Sikh it was his right to be there. The govt had no right to invade such a holy shrine!
|
|
|
|
Post by JackWilshere on Jan 13, 2010 0:36:09 GMT
Im sorry, but ''sonia did her best'', ''atleast her and tommy did something'' etc is simply not good enough in this case, you people seriously need to stop being apologists for sonia and her team. If you are going to do a documentary about 1984 then do it properly, this was watered down biased bullS#!t and sonia was way out of her depth. Again, I reiterate, im not calling for a documentary which bashes the indian government or is pro bhindranwale etc, Im saying if you are going to do a documentary about this subject then bring everything to the table. Im sorry but sonia prancing about in punjab speaking bad punjabi and telling us how sikhs were attacking hindus and how bhindranwale became a fanatical freak after he went to religious school is disgusting.
If you are not going to cover this period properly then don't do a bloody documentary, because missing out stuff, not covering certain people and situations properly means you are asking for trouble.
This was a shockingly basic effort at exploring a complex situation, it was also watered down and biased. If anything this documentary show that the people behind this, sonia and tommy, are clearly not intelligent enough to cover such a subject, you need the tullys of this world to do such subjects not sonia and tommy sandhu.
Not good enough.
|
|
|
|
Post by pakithug2nv on Jan 13, 2010 1:20:55 GMT
as a neutral...i think sonia should be praised..she gave an account to a british population that probably had no idea about this event...she raised the awareness...your lucky that even happened, these type of things happen in India every week to any minority because of their religion, caste, culture or origin.
|
|
|
|
Post by gigteam on Jan 13, 2010 1:21:42 GMT
Sarpanch go bak and watch it again.
Sonia did mention than Bhindrawale got quite a few people to take Amrit and
also to leave nasha and drink.
But like tony said iys her stage name, when I spoke to him he said loads of people have stage name inc
Taz frm Stereo Nation, Sukshinder Shinda, Panjabi Mc, Desi Dark Child, Dr Zeus, Swami, Akshay Kumar, Dilip Kumar
50 cents, Snoop, Dr Dre. All of these names I've listed are stage names.
So should all of them go back to their real names now, as they are famous and people know their names n voices?
Remember the doc was made for bbc 1, and was based mainly on Sonia's life and 1984 not 83,82 or any other year.
Like someone said earier, if people belive the doc as gospel truth, then must think corrie n eastenders are true storys.
And its good that its causing quite a stir, hopefully now people will go n research 1984, operation bluestar and learn more about it.
Like Sonia said many Sikhs consider operation Bluestar as our own 9/11.
I would have never have thought of it like that before the doc, now I'm like yea she's got a point about that.
As for Bhindrawale talking to Hindu and Muslim leaders to promote peacefull co esixtence I never knew that till now.
And a msg from Tony and Tej to all members is please do NOT post personal abuse at Sonia Deol, Tommy Nagra or Sandhu (2 seprate people, and its Tommy Nagra that is the producer), as your post may get deleted as a whole.
|
|
|
|
Post by JackWilshere on Jan 13, 2010 1:39:35 GMT
As for Bhindrawale talking to Hindu and Muslim leaders to promote peacefull co esixtence I never knew that till now. Well you know now. I have books at home which discuss this aspect along with showing pictures of him having meetings with influential muslim and hindu politicians aswell as religious figures. as a neutral...i think sonia should be praised..she gave an account to a british population that probably had no idea about this event...she raised the awareness...your lucky that even happened, these type of things happen in India every week to any minority because of their religion, caste, culture or origin. ... a biased and watered down account. |
|
|
|
Post by Cruel on Jan 13, 2010 3:51:41 GMT
im frm tha states..is there a way for us to see it..  !! the video doesnt allow us to see it...only Uk folks..thats kind of a dropper... Tony..any alternatives??? im from Canada and wanted to watch this.....for those outside of the UK and know how to download torrents... go to www. thebox. bz (delete spaces), register and search for 1984...it is there available for download |
|
|
|
Post by panjab1 on Jan 13, 2010 4:22:55 GMT
Well my point regarding stage names is this. Yes you listed a lot of people there with stage names. But do you hear the likes of Zeus give a sob story like Sonia sayng they want to use their original name but they can't. And think people are missing the point. She actually changed her name when she wasat school not when she got a career. So technically it is not a stage name. She has actually change her name to Sonia Deol because of embarassment.
Secondly I don't care if her and Tommy got off their backside. They gave a totally inaccurate picture of events so should not have bothered. Yes she said Sikhs regard it as their 9/11. But like the initial Bhindrawake comments, it was lost in her one track of looking at why bhindrawlw turned into a bad guy. Her conclusions will stick in minds of people. Firstly, Sikhs aren't opressed people in India and secondly bhindrawale went a saint. If anyone does their own Reading, they will see both are wrong. She fronted a poor programme and did herself or faith no justice.
|
|
|
|
Post by GhabruJatt on Jan 13, 2010 12:37:00 GMT
^^^
Im not saying your wrong but it will greatly improve your arguements if you state how Sikhs are being oppressed in PRESENT day India
|
|
|
|
Post by 50Cent on Jan 13, 2010 13:33:36 GMT
Obviously it would be biased, THE BBC ARE INVOLVED, But SONIA DEOL PUT THIS SHOW ON TV. THATS A GOOD THING, SPREADING AWARENESS. WE AS SIKHS HAVE LEARNT FROM SUCH A TRAGIC EVENT, THAT THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.
EVERY SIKH SHOULD STICK TOGETHER
WE NEED TO LOVE OUR SISTER DAUGHTERS LOOK AFTER THEM. TODAYS CLIMATE IS MESSED UP
THE MUSLIM CHAPS DATE RAPING, ETC ETC. SIKH AWARNESS SOCIETY HAVE PROVEN FACTS.
ALL THESE MUSLIM GENTS WHO ACT SIKH NEED TO BE TAKEN CARE OFF.
THE RISE OF THE SIKH ARMY HAS BEGUNNN. THERE WILL BE A FACEBOOK GROUP WHERE YOU CAN GIVE YOU E-MAIL ADDRESS. SO WE ALL HAVE ONE NETWORK.
LEICESTER AND MANY OTHER CITIES ARE OURS, WE NEED TO LOOK AFTER OUR COMMUNITY.
MY NEPHEW WAS BEING BULLIED BY A GANG OF MUSLIM CHILDREN AT PRIMARY SCHOOL. SO WE NEED TO BREED OUR CHILDREN WITH THIS KNOWLEDGE. AND STAND UP TO ALL RACISM/DISCRIMATION AGAINST US.
MARK MY WORDS , IN 10 YRS WILL YOUR KIDS BE SAFE? ACT NOW.
BE HUMBLE, DONT HATE.
|
|
|
|
Post by panjab1 on Jan 13, 2010 17:07:24 GMT
Ghabru, an easier question would be what rights do Sikhs have in India? Not a lot. Why not talk about that everything the Sikhs were promised at the time of partition has never been given to them? Why not talk about the size of Punjab shrinking all the time due to the Indian Govt taking? Punjabs water supply being wrongfully taken. Sikh marriages not even being recognized, sikhism not recognized as a religion? The main instigators of the 1984 attack are still in the Govt. In powerful positions.
Sikh kids being taken and shot in police encounters at night? Was any of that covered? No. Sant Bhindrawale was just turned into a terrorist in a one hour programme
|
|
|
|
Post by Cruel on Jan 14, 2010 6:06:55 GMT
i know its not closure but still a positive step to hold those who are responsibleIndia Sajjan Kumar incited mob to kill, burn Sikhs, says CBI (Lead) New Delhi |Wednesday, 2010 9:35:13 PM IST Former Congress MP Sajjan Kumar instigated a mob of around 300-400 people in Delhi's Sultanpuri and Palam areas of Delhi Nov 1, 1984, to kill Sikhs and pillage their houses, the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) said in its charge sheet before a city court Wednesday. The CBI filed charge sheets against Sajjan Kumar and others in two cases of the 1984 anti-Sikh riots before Chief Metropolitan Magistrate Kaveri Baweja at the Tis Hazari Court here. This is the first time the CBI has chargesheeted Sajjan Kumar. "Investigations conducted by us revealed that after the assassination of Indira Gandhi, the then prime minister, on Oct 30, 1984, Sajjan Kumar, the then MP from Outer Delhi constituency, instigated a mob of about 300-400 persons, assembled at B-2 Block park at Sultanpuri to kill, burn the people of the Sikh community as they had killed Gandhi, and also to loot and burn their houses," a CBI spokesman said here. "Investigations further established that provocative speeches with common object as aforesaid made by the then MP to the mob gathered in the area of Sultanpuri, promoted instant and violent enmity against Sikhs and disturbed the harmony between two religious groups/communities of the locality, which resulted in the killings of Sikhs and burning and looting of their houses." "As a result of this provocative instigation of Sajjan Kumar, an unlawful assembly armed with deadly weapons like lathis, ballams, kerosene oil, guns etc. damaged the gurudwara of C Block and other blocks of Sultanpuri, set them on fire, went through several streets killing Sikhs, destroyed their properties by looting and burning their houses, and took away their dead bodies," the spokesman added. The CBI said the riots resulted in the killing of Hoshiar Singh, Mohan Singh, Ranjeet Singh, Basant Singh and his two sons Balbir Singh and Balihar Singh, and many others. "Investigations further disclosed that Sajjan Kumar led an unlawful assembly, including four other accused persons armed with iron rod, kerosene oil, danda and swords, with common object entered into B-2 Block, Sultanpuri Nov 1, 1984 killed one Surjeet Singh," the spokesman said. The First Information Reports (FIRs) were registered at the Sultanpuri police station. The CBI spokesman said Sajjan Kumar also incited a mob in Raj Nagar of Palam area in southwest Delhi to attack and set on fire a gurdwara, burnt vehicles and houses of Sikhs. The mob also caught hold of Nirmal Singh and burnt him alive. Sajjan Kumar arrived in Raj Nagar in his Ambassador car around 10 p.m. Nov 1, 1984. He instigated the unlawful assembly by provoking it not to leave any Sikh alive, besides not even sparing any Hindus who had provided shelter to Sikhs, the spokesman said. "After instigating the unlawful assembly, Sajjan Kumar left Raj Nagar and the mob looted the house of Jagsher Singh and thereafter set it on fire. The mob also looted houses of other Sikhs residing in that area, and also attacked the house of (a person called) Rajni where Raghuvinder Singh, Narender Pal Singh and Kuldeep Singh had taken shelter," the CBI spokesman said. "The mob then burnt alive Raghuvinder Singh, Narender Pal Singh and Kuldeep Singh in Raj Nagar area on the morning of Nov 2, 1984, the spokesman added. A case was later registered at the Delhi Cantonment police station. After considering the findings of the Nanavati Commission, home ministry directed the CBI five years ago to re-investigate the cases concerning the involvement of Sajjan Kumar. Source: news.webindia123.com/news/articles/India/20100113/1424402.html
|
|
|
|
Post by gigteam on Jan 14, 2010 12:30:37 GMT
as a neutral...i think sonia should be praised..she gave an account to a british population that probably had no idea about this event...she raised the awareness...your lucky that even happened, these type of things happen in India every week to any minority because of their religion, caste, culture or origin. Exalt. The thing is before the doc came on air, how many people here used to go on about 1984, Sant Bindranwala or operation bluestar?? Hardly any. There are a few posts about Sikhi in the World Events section most recently posted by Kamlee, who for some reason has not posted on here as yet. But by all means please go ahead & do so. Remember just a few weeks back everyone was on about the whole Babbu Mann (By the way that's his stage name)"Ik Baba Nanak" & the whole Pakadi baba & Dehra Sucha Sauda stuff. But there was little or no mention of 1984, Sant Bindranwala or operation bluestar at on them threads. So at least Sonia Deol, Tommy Nagra & the BBC have got people talking about it & have raised awareness, which we should all be thankfull for! 1984 is a black mark on the history of India. |
|
|
|
Post by Pendoo on Jan 14, 2010 13:02:54 GMT
as a neutral...i think sonia should be praised..she gave an account to a british population that probably had no idea about this event...she raised the awareness...your lucky that even happened, these type of things happen in India every week to any minority because of their religion, caste, culture or origin. But by all means please go ahead & do so. Remember just a few weeks back everyone was on about the whole Babbu Mann (By the way that's his stage name Mate the only reason people bring up the stage name comment is because it was stupid. Babbu or any other acts with stage names haven't been stupid enough to say something along the lines of "It fills me with pride knowing I would change my name, but because i'm in the public spotlight and known as Sonia Deol I'm not going too" Absolute BS...you can defend her as much on that point as you want but it was BS. |
|
|
|
Post by panjab1 on Jan 14, 2010 13:13:52 GMT
Absoultely right Pendoo. Spot on. I would just like to point out also, that Sonia Deol is not her stage name. The whole point is totally different. She unlike the likes of Dr Zues, Babbu Mann etc changed her name at around the age of 13 when she was at a predominantly white school because she was embarrased of her real name. Therefore, it isn't a stage name at all. Sonia Deol is now her name
Her comments about changing it back if she could are cringeworthy. Please. No one is holding a gun to her head and saying you can't change your name to Jaswinder Kaur Sidhu. She is making the own choice of keeping Sonia Deol because of her career. I'd just like to say that this is fair enough. It's her choice. But she should stop talking crap and making it it's such a difficult decision for her.
She's a hypocrite.
|
|
|
|
Post by panjab1 on Jan 14, 2010 13:15:59 GMT
And I'd also like to point out she did a show on the Asian Network (when she had her own show) when she talked about her marriage, subsequent divorce and views now. And trust me her views were totally at odds with the image she was attempting to portray in this programme
|
|
|
|
Post by GhabruJatt on Jan 14, 2010 15:12:17 GMT
Nice messege
|
|
|
|
Post by JackWilshere on Jan 14, 2010 15:33:18 GMT
as a neutral...i think sonia should be praised..she gave an account to a british population that probably had no idea about this event...she raised the awareness...your lucky that even happened, these type of things happen in India every week to any minority because of their religion, caste, culture or origin. Exalt. The thing is before the doc came on air, how many people here used to go on about 1984, Sant Bindranwala or operation bluestar?? Hardly any. There are a few posts about Sikhi in the World Events section most recently posted by Kamlee, who for some reason has not posted on here as yet. But by all means please go ahead & do so. Remember just a few weeks back everyone was on about the whole Babbu Mann (By the way that's his stage name)"Ik Baba Nanak" & the whole Pakadi baba & Dehra Sucha Sauda stuff. But there was little or no mention of 1984, Sant Bindranwala or operation bluestar at on them threads. So at least Sonia Deol, Tommy Nagra & the BBC have got people talking about it & have raised awareness, which we should all be thankfull for! 1984 is a black mark on the history of India. You are totally wrong on this, the subject of 84/Bhindranwale/attacks on sikhs has been discussed on here many times, even music threads have gone off topic and into politics, I don't know what your are on about. Little or no mention? You on crack? Been discussed 100's of times. About sonia's name change, to compare her to musicians like Tony did is rather silly, if he or others can't see that then thats their problem, I think Tony is looking out for one of his media buddies here. |
|
|
|
Post by amlijattuk on Jan 14, 2010 15:41:08 GMT
3. Respect for sonia deol doing what she did, but this is the last quesiton i wanna ask.... Where was she when adil ray made those remarks, and her employers defedned adil ray and took the recording down. WHy didnt she speak up? Valid and good point that is what I am wondering about which made me think about her as a person. I was also intrigued about who else could have been the main person in a show like this. I did admire Dr Inderjit Singh the president of the NSO. His manner and style is always top class and he always has a very interesting take on life. The timing was ridiculous far too late to target more people for awareness and there was plenty of loopholes in the whole story. Once again typical BBC style - telling a story but leaving out the truth. |
|
|
|
Post by JackWilshere on Jan 14, 2010 15:43:31 GMT
3. Respect for sonia deol doing what she did, but this is the last quesiton i wanna ask.... Where was she when adil ray made those remarks, and her employers defedned adil ray and took the recording down. WHy didnt she speak up? Valid and good point that is what I am wondering about which made me think about her as a person. That has nothing to do with her to be honest, thats between adil ray and the people who run the place. You can't attack the woman for that. |
|
|
|
Post by amlijattuk on Jan 14, 2010 15:51:10 GMT
Valid and good point that is what I am wondering about which made me think about her as a person. That has nothing to do with her to be honest, thats between adil ray and the people who run the place. You can't attack the woman for that. Well I also thought only negatives could come out of her telling everyone her real name and how she always feels she wishes she could change it. no doubt people will be making a mockery out of her now. Just get on with it woman and change it! |
|
|
|
Post by JackWilshere on Jan 14, 2010 15:51:14 GMT
Pity this was on the BBC with a thick woman leading the show and not on channel 4 with someone credible.
Here's hoping channel 4 cover the subject in the future.
|
|
|
|
Post by amlijattuk on Jan 14, 2010 15:53:01 GMT
Pity this was on the BBC with a thick woman leading the show and not on channel 4 with someone credible. I admire channel 4 especially their news  Yep but I was thinking who else could have hosted the show from the BBC? |
|
|
|
Post by JackWilshere on Jan 14, 2010 15:54:16 GMT
^^ Mark Tully? Although anyone would have been better than the thick bimbo.
|
|
|
|
Post by amlijattuk on Jan 14, 2010 15:59:05 GMT
Yes he was that presenter for the BBC but he's not Sikh. Although he would have done a better job but reason to open up a can or worms for some people.
who else could their have been that is Sikh from the BBC?
|
|
|
|
Post by panjab1 on Jan 14, 2010 16:19:26 GMT
Reckon you needed a proper desi to do it. None of those on the BBC I'm afraid
Certainly not Sonia Ghandeol.
|
|
.jpg)
!!
