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Post by londonLIONjatt on Jun 8, 2008 12:57:58 GMT
lineage is important , thats my view. most definetly, alot of sikh people, organisations and jathas who preach this anti-caste stuff actually either have no idea of, or just don;t have a lineage. Evevn the Gurus lineage is described, Bhair Gurdass ji and Guru Gobind Singh both have talked about the Gurus lineage. The fact is, this western sikhi, eg BOSS and others, is taught and tailored fo sikh kids who have been away from india for many generations and don;t know much about their own cultures and traditions. This kinda sikhi eats away at our traditions, the people who moan about caste, don't have really have their own traditions remaining.
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Post by mrshdhami on Jun 9, 2008 7:42:22 GMT
Boring I went Leicester 2 weeks ago and some guy was bad mouthing Hindu's, I said I was Hindu and you should have seen his face drop, was funny
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Post by londonLIONjatt on Jun 9, 2008 15:48:17 GMT
Well back in the day many sikhs would have called themselves hindu, long-long time ago.
YEah, my jatt mates jatt wedding is in Lesta, brruuaahh, i will probably go few weeks time.
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Post by Ghost... on Jun 9, 2008 21:02:59 GMT
how can you call yourself a Sikh, then say I'm Jatt?
makes no sense.
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Post by 5abikuri10 on Jun 9, 2008 21:56:38 GMT
how can you call yourself a Sikh, then say I'm Jatt? makes no sense. cuz its a caste dorkk sikh jatt
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Post by Ghost... on Jun 10, 2008 13:14:55 GMT
no, that is not a caste.
u idiot.
Sikhi has no castes.
Someone teach her
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Post by rajpreet82 on Jun 10, 2008 13:54:13 GMT
lol
sikh > religion, equality caste > tradition, hierarchy sikhi + caste = water and oil - it just doesn't mix. sikh jatt is not a caste, jatt is a caste, sikh is a religion.
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Post by londonLIONjatt on Jun 10, 2008 14:49:08 GMT
how can you call yourself a Sikh, then say I'm Jatt? makes no sense. I don't call myself a Sikh though, only a sikh. The capital S makes all the difference. sikh = disciple or sikh of Guru Nanak Sikh = follower of a religion
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Post by londonLIONjatt on Jun 10, 2008 14:51:35 GMT
lol sikh > religion, equality caste > tradition, hierarchy sikhi + caste = water and oil - it just doesn't mix. sikh jatt is not a caste, jatt is a caste, sikh is a religion. sikhi and caste goes hand-in-hand for many traditional families, there is no problem. I am sikh, but I DO NOT follow religion.
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Post by Ghost... on Jun 10, 2008 16:58:46 GMT
then why do you wear a turban, keep your hear, and all that?
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Post by rajpreet82 on Jun 10, 2008 18:11:12 GMT
SIKHI AND CASTE DOES NOT GO HAND IN HAND.
FAMILIES STICK WITH THE CASTE THING AND PASS IT ON FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION. IN MOST FAMILIES NO-ONE EVEN QUESTIONS THE EXISTENCE OF GOD SO IF YOU ARE BORN INTO A SIKH FAMILY YOU ARE A SIKH. THIS IS THE SAME WITH THE CASTE. YOUR PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS HAVE SOCIALISED YOU TO BELIEVE IN CASTE.
IF YOU BOTHER LEARNING ABOUT YOUR RELIGION AND THINKING FOR YOURSELF YOU WILL REALISE THAT CASTE IS IRRELEVANT TO BEING A SIKH.
GO TO A LANGAR HALL AND SIT DOWN WITH EVERYONE ELSE. LETS SEE WHO CARES WHAT CASTE YOU ARE THEN.
SIKHI HAS ALWAYS BEEN ANTI-CASTE. WHY DO YOU REFUSE TO ACCEPT THAT?
WE ARE ALL HUMAN. WE ARE ALL EQUAL.
BE A JATT, THARKAN, CHAMAAR BUT DO NOT CONNECT IT TO SIKHI IN ANY WAY. RESPECT YOUR CULTURE AND TRADITION BUT DO NOT CONFUSE IT WITH YOUR RELIGION.
TEACH YOUR KIDS THAT ALL HUMANS ARE EQUAL. SO WE CAN PUT AN END TO THIS CASTE BULLS#!t.
DO NOT BE SO IGNORANT IN THE WAY YOU THINK. CONSIDER THE FUTURE SIKH GENERATIONS, DO YOU WANT THEM TO CONTINUE DEBATING ABOUT SUCH STUPIDITY LIKE WE DO NOW?
LETS END IT HERE.
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Post by Ghost... on Jun 10, 2008 18:15:16 GMT
^^
Exalt.
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Post by londonLIONjatt on Jun 10, 2008 21:25:24 GMT
WE ARE ALL HUMAN. WE ARE ALL EQUAL. Then why must we call ourselves sikhs then? Lets make one place of worship for everyone? BE A JATT, THARKAN, CHAMAAR BUT DO NOT CONNECT IT TO SIKHI IN ANY WAY. RESPECT YOUR CULTURE AND TRADITION BUT DO NOT CONFUSE IT WITH YOUR RELIGION. It will always be connected in bani: Adi Guru Granth Sahib page 995 ਧੰਨਾ ਜਟੁ ਬਾਲਮੀਕੁ ਬਟਵਾਰਾ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਰਿ ਪਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ धंना जटु बालमीकु बटवारा गुरमुखि पारि पइआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Ḏẖannā jat bālmīk batvārā gurmukẖ pār paiā. ||1|| rahāo. Dhanna the jatt, and Balmik the highway robber, became Gurmukh, and crossed over. ||1||Pause|| Sri Dasam Granth ਸਵੈਯਾ ॥ सवैया ॥ SWAYYA ਛਤ੍ਰੀ ਕੋ ਪੂਤ ਹੌ ਬਾਮਨ ਕੋ ਨਹਿ ਕੈ ਤਪੁ ਆਵਤ ਹੈ ਜੁ ਕਰੋ ॥ ਅਰੁ ਅਉਰ ਜੰਜਾਰ ਜਿਤੋ ਗ੍ਰਹਿ ਕੋ ਤੁਹਿ ਤਿਆਗ ਕਹਾ ਚਿਤ ਤਾ ਮੈ ਧਰੋ ॥ छत्री को पूत हौ बामन को नहि कै तपु आवत है जु करो ॥ अरु अउर जंजार जितो ग्रहि को तुहि तिआग कहा चित ता मै धरो ॥ I am the son of a Kshatriya and not of a Brahmin who may instruct for performing severe austerities; how can I absorb myself in the embarrassments of the world by leaving you; ਅਬ ਰੀਝ ਕੈ ਦੇਹੁ ਵਹੈ ਹਮ ਕਉ ਜੋਊ ਹਉ ਬਿਨਤੀ ਕਰ ਜੋਰ ਕਰੋ ॥ ਜਬ ਆਉ ਕੀ ਅਉਧ ਨਿਦਾਨ ਬਨੈ ਅਤਿਹੀ ਰਨ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਜੂਝ ਮਰੋ ॥੨੪੮੯॥ अब रीझ कै देहु वहै हम कउ जोऊ हउ बिनती कर जोर करो ॥ जब आउ की अउध निदान बनै अतिही रन मै तब जूझ मरो ॥२४८९॥ Whatever request I am making with my folded hands, O Lord ! kindly be graceful and bestow this boon on me that when ever my end comes, then I may die fighting in the battlefield.2489. TEACH YOUR KIDS THAT ALL HUMANS ARE EQUAL. SO WE CAN PUT AN END TO THIS CASTE BULLS#!t. since when does it imply inequality, especially in the UK? If all humans are equal then no point in saying we are sikh or hindu or muslims its there? And why don't goray mind when we call ourselves by castes, they don';t feel inequal? Also rajpreet I am sikh, but I DO NOT follow or belong to any religion, I only follow sikhi as a panth and follow dharma. Also back in our pinds it is very normal to be called jatts. Back in my pind the jatts live in one side. Plsu, I don;t think anyone has the right to tell anyone if they can or cannot use caste. If they do, then please tell me and how?
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Post by londonLIONjatt on Jun 10, 2008 21:26:26 GMT
then why do you wear a turban, keep your hear, and all that? Many jatts keep turban and beard, Shaheed Bhagat Singh was one. Turban is quite normal for jatts to wear.
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Post by rajpreet82 on Jun 10, 2008 21:30:52 GMT
i just hope people don't make a judgment on sikhi from what you say because it is incorrect, biased and misinterpreted.
sikhi is a simple religion stop complicating it.
we dont believe in castes. full stop. theres no sects in sikhi. sikhi sudnt be divided
a sikh is a sikh.
stop following the whole caste thing, please. we sudnt be dividing our religion. we dnt need seperate gurdware for seperate castes.
thats not the point sikhism.
thers no point in glorifying ur caste it will not get u anywhere. at death u will not take anythin with u, just ur soul. everythin else will be left here, even the title 'jatt', thers no point. this is wot sikhs believe, why hang on to the topic of castes when can focus on the other aspects of sikhi.
im done on this topic now, not like what im sayin is going to make a difference.
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Post by mrshdhami on Jun 10, 2008 21:41:32 GMT
Lets get patti around mine, I have a free house, caste talk is boring and sooooo last centry, JAAATYAAAA.
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Post by londonLIONjatt on Jun 10, 2008 21:48:47 GMT
accha i am coming, lol
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Post by londonLIONjatt on Jun 10, 2008 21:52:36 GMT
i just hope people don't make a judgment on sikhi from what you say because it is incorrect, biased and misinterpreted. sikhi is a simple religion stop complicating it. we dont believe in castes. full stop. theres no sects in sikhi. sikhi sudnt be divided a sikh is a sikh. stop following the whole caste thing, please. we sudnt be dividing our religion. we dnt need seperate gurdware for seperate castes. thats not the point sikhism. thers no point in glorifying ur caste it will not get u anywhere. at death u will not take anythin with u, just ur soul. everythin else will be left here, even the title 'jatt', thers no point. this is wot sikhs believe, why hang on to the topic of castes when can focus on the other aspects of sikhi. im done on this topic now, not like what im sayin is going to make a difference. ok how would interpretate it? Are you going to take this "sikh" title with you as well? YEs the caste gurdwarey, I ain't involved, especially not jatts. I don't belong to any religion, thats just like a caste. Sikhi is for everyone to follow, castes are our own personal ways of family life.
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Post by rajpreet82 on Jun 10, 2008 22:10:40 GMT
sikh is not my title it is my belief. my beliefs have shaped my soul and will continue to do so.
bye. for gods sake and the sake of ur caste do not reply to this.
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Post by londonLIONjatt on Jun 10, 2008 23:03:36 GMT
lol hahahahahahahahahahaha good one twinkle
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Post by rajpreet82 on Jun 14, 2008 13:31:15 GMT
Stop being the wall that stops us from being together.
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Post by londonLIONjatt on Jun 14, 2008 14:46:15 GMT
If you wanna be together, then drop labels like Sikh.
Look, People like Hitler and Taliban are the ones who propogate a society where only one culture is allowed to be. The sikhs fouhgt against Mughals, some of whose emperors only wanted peopel to follow muslims culture. Same with extermist christians who believe every1 should be christian and extremist muslims who believe the same for islam.
Where does sikhi say we have to all be one culture?
No sikhi preachs equality, not communism. You need to see the difference. Equality allows every culture, including jatts , tarkhans , chamaras, whatever etc Communisim says you have to be one culture like islam, or christianity. This doesn;t seem like equality to me.
Which do u follow?
We live in a mutli-cultural society. FI you want to live withing only one culture, theres Afghanistan with the taliban, or an isolated island to go to.
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Post by rajpreet82 on Jun 14, 2008 15:12:01 GMT
dude u make no sense. stop going to extremes. suggest something realistic. if u have no answers then dont create unnecessary debates. my argument: castes separate people. your argument: sum next S#!t about labels.
if u cant stick to the debate about sikhi and caste then dont even bother.
u cant accept the fact that sikhi is anti-caste so to defend ur flawed opinion by bringin in some next S#!t about culture.
religion and labels do not separate society, people do. people like u.
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Post by londonLIONjatt on Jun 14, 2008 19:32:45 GMT
sikhi is anti-caste, you haven't proved this yet, just assumed this because its taught to kids in the uk.
TO me our castes are different cultures as well. Please tell me how calling myself jatt is creating inequality. The same way I'll show you how calling oneself muslim, sikh or christian also creates division.
lol I did stick to the debate. you can;t handl;e my opinion. Like I said, I prefer to live in multi-cultural society than one where we all have to follow one thing eg the Taliban or NAzis.
Do I make you feel inequal?
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Post by rajpreet82 on Jun 14, 2008 20:19:01 GMT
lol wtf how wud u make me feel unequal?
if u chat about the tradition and bullS#!t of a person then u cant make the judgment if u are makin me feel unequal because u simply do not kno my past or f**kin tradition as u wud say.
AND PLUS WHY WUD I FEEL UNEQUAL TO U BEIN A JATT AND BE TRYIN TO BE A DECENT SIKH.
SIKHI IS ANTI CASTE - WHEN IT IS USED TO SEPARATE PEOPLE
WTF U MIXIN TRADITION WITH RELIGION FOR UR A TWAT MAN IVE HAD ENUFF OF U JUS f**k UP EVERYTHIN.. EVERYTHIN THIS RELIGION IS BASED UPON
“All beings and creatures are His; He belongs to all” (Guru Granth Sahib, 425).
“Recognize the Lord's Light within all, and do not consider social class or status; there are no classes or castes in the world hereafter” (Guru Granth Sahib, 349)
CASTE WAS MADE TO SEPARATE PEOPLE TO CREATE A HIERARCHY TO SAY THT ONE GROUP IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER
U DISGUST ME
24/7 CASTE THIS CASTE THT
JUS f**kIN PISS OFF
GO SHOVE UR JATT S#!t UP UR ARSE
BUT DNT U DARE LINK IT TO SIKHI IN ANY WAY
SIKHI TELLS U TO NOT FORGET UR TRADITION BUT IT DOESNT TELL U TO f**kIN GO ON N ON ABOUT IT
SO f**kIN GET OVER IT. DO SOMETHING WORTHY IN THIS WORLD SO PEOPLE CAN SAY BLA BLA IS GREAT
OR JUS SIT THERE ARGUING ABOUT CASTE BEIN IMPORTANT AND A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF LIFE WHEN IT CLEARLY ISN'T.
im done with this bullS#!t. i need to tlk to some people who actually get my point of view.
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