|
Post by DesiBabe on Mar 22, 2005 16:40:27 GMT
lol thanks Buff Jatt for agreeing. But I need to make it clear that I aint just saying that becos of my parents. I want to marry an indian because thats my preference. I know I could marry a non-asian but I wouldn't want to as I never been attracted to them.
Believe it or not ppl don't marry their own kind just for the sake of it. Its usually becos of love and preference.
I have more repect for ppl that marry their own kind than those who end up in mixed marriages.
|
|
|
Post by precious on Mar 22, 2005 17:35:37 GMT
Why do you have more respect for same race marriages desibabe? explain yourself better.
Personally I have very little respect for people that cant follow their own hearts and make decisons for themselves, if you aint gonna live your life who is? Your parents aint gonna be there for you forever your gonna have to stand on your own to feet one day.
But I have got respect for people who marry their own kind out of preference, cos thats your choice so good luck to you x
|
|
|
Post by DesiBabe on Mar 23, 2005 14:12:25 GMT
Well these days I think most people who marry their own kind are doing it out of preference and love. I have more repect for ppl that marry their own kind because it shows that their in tune with their own culture and are happy with it's traditions and lifestyle, which you got to admire and respect.
|
|
|
Post by precious on Mar 23, 2005 14:23:29 GMT
Fair enough but I think you can still hold on to your culture no matter who you marry. An indian will always be an indian, its in your blood. I dont agree with gora culture and values, and there are some asian values I agree with and many i dont agree with. I'd let me children see the best of both worlds, they'll never forget their half indian, trust me!
But then again how many asians today are really truely in tune with their culture. Kids here have become westernised and are definately not as cultural as they used to be. And its things like the way we dress, and lifestyles that im talking about. Many traditions have been lost, for example sex before marriage. Asian virgins these days are a rare thing.
So which traditions are you talking about, what listening to bangra music thats mixed with r n b and going to the gurdwara in jeans, or going out drinking, or having sex, or having boyfriends/girlfriends your parents dont know about... need I go on???
Tradition was left back in india, arranged marriage is the only tradition left and even that hardly happens anymore.
|
|
|
Post by DesiBabe on Mar 23, 2005 15:57:59 GMT
Hmm not really. All the stuff you said (Listenin to bhangra, going out drinking, or having sex, or having boyfriends/girlfriends your parents dont know about) can go on in India too (and other places)! Foreign traditions, ceremonies and lifestyles exist all over the world, it doesn't just happen in the home nation. I know plenty of different young people who are happily into their culture and those that are usually stick to their own kind, which you got to praise and admire or respect atleast.
|
|
|
Post by precious on Mar 25, 2005 17:03:17 GMT
Definately in modern indian cities, but not were my family comes from. All my cousins in India are still very very traditional and have all had arranged marriages.
Anyway I appreciate what your saying desibabe, end of the day, I'v got the biggest respect for marriages that actually last, not neccessarliy what race the two people are. It all about love, and if you can survive marriage and stick by each other forever, that is what I respect.
people of the same race still get divorced so being the same culture cant be that perfect. All you need is LOVE not colour xxxxx
|
|
|
Post by DesiBabe on Mar 25, 2005 18:43:11 GMT
Cool but you gotta realise that many people (in Britain, india, etc) prefer their lifestyle of traditions and culture. Some people also prefer the arranged married concept, which is cool too. I mean it way better then joining dating agencies like non-asians do. Divorse is far more common with non-asians than asians. I think its fair to say that all people who are into their culture, end up marrying their own kind. Again I respect people who have those values. I'm not saying they are all saints but atleast they show that they are in tune with their own culture and are happy with it's traditions and lifestyle. A lifestyle that they want to pass on to their kids and future generations.
|
|
|
Post by bham da jatt on Mar 29, 2005 19:15:18 GMT
wow....have i missed this forum, some really interesting things said here as well as some non-related ones, but still interesting to read. im glad the battle between lionless n precious has stopped, it was ruining the thread!! precious - u have some really interesting views, n u write extremely well i did really enjoy readin all u wrote, however lol, i must say i disagree with probably 90% lol, but still respect ur views n way of writing in particular, well done! i am gonna enjoy having a discussion with u i think lol! wont pick up on old things uve been discussing with lioness, otherwise ill write u an essay, but pickin up on the point said 23/03 @ 09:23: yes u can hold onto ur culture no matter who u marry to some degree, but not to all. tell me, how often do u go the the church? probably none i assume cuz 99.9% of gore dont go there anymore, so i guess we cant answer that question. n if u do then that means ur not holding onto ur culture as much! but more importantly its about ur kids holdin onto the culture. where r they goin? church or Gurdwara? need i say anymore... an indian will not always be an indian! uve got that completely wrong. its not in our blood to be indian, its in our hearts to be it! there r many what we call "coconuts" in this country n for some1 to classify them as my fellow indian i am extremely embarrassed and dont agree with it! ull never let ur kids forget they r half indian, well ill be interesting to see what happens in the future, but best of luck to u! and which asian values dont u agree with? id be interesting to hear what u have to say, but maybe in a different thread as i dont want to shift away from this title too much. some asian youngsters r in tune some arent, we dont have to be a genius to work that one out, but ur point was? finding asian virgins is a rare thing? its tru to say its becoming rare, but how rare is rare? i dont think its rare, i know many asian girl mates of mine that r virgins. yes things r changing but there r still those respected ones there. not interferring in ur life too much, but it seems ur saying that as u want to possibly forgive urself for a potential mistake but accusing all the other asian girls of non-virgins! bhangra im sorry but some old school stuff is still so bril, rnb doesnt come close. come on, gurdass mann is still a don, hes killin it at the concerts lol. Gurdwara in jeans fine some girls do that, i personally dont agree with it, unless its cuz ur just goin to work or whatever, but still its not the end of the world if some1 goes to the Gurdwara in jeans u know! Sikhi teaches us whats in our heart not whats on our body! drinking come on precious, thought ur sensible enough to know the difference between culture n religion. plenty of panjabis even 50 yrs ago used to drink. n not every1 drinks. ive never even touched the thing, n again, i know plenty of ppl in my shows too! sex-before-marriage u bought this up again, ill choose not to do the same thing dont give me tradition is left back in india miss precious, i think u need to recognise india a bit more. i go to india on average 2/3 times a year. i live in my pind (yes im a desi) n my cousins there have gfs/bfs. trust me they r worse than some girls n boys here r. to some degree id rather marry a girl here than there jus considerin who is more decent! using ur rather clever words "need i go on..." lol, i really enjoed answerin ur comments, hope u enjoyed the answers take care, bham da jatt x
|
|
|
Post by bham da jatt on Mar 29, 2005 19:19:02 GMT
desibabe
i agree with ur points hun.
yes its whats in ur will that matters at the end. im really into my culture n yes i know not to get married out of race, religion or even caste. i have dated girls of different religion and now just hittin 22 i know not to make the same "mistake" again.
marriage is not about 2 individuals, nor jus 2 families, but a whole society!!
love
bham da jatt x
|
|
|
Post by precious on Mar 29, 2005 19:38:11 GMT
Hey bham da jatt, really appreciate the feedback, its good to see someone that can get their view across without getting insulting.
You've made a big response to everything i've said, n i'll be here forever if i tried to explain myself again!
I really repect you for wanting to hold on to your culture, but I think its important to keep indian culture and religion separate. I personally am not religious as I dont see the point of having religion if you do not hold the strength to follow its values and beliefs, and that is what I think is true of many young sikhs. This is also true in ALL religions however.
My kids will be able to make their own choices about religion, and whatever they choose I will support it. I dont think you should be born into religion, it should be a personal thing. Afterall we are all individuals.
I have my OWN religion and my OWN outlook in life. Its difficult to explain but I havent got hate for anyone in this world, I see everyone as equal. I wish sometimes I didnt have such strong views about life and could just do as my parents say, but If i dont follow my heart i'll know i'll end up a very very unhappy person. Likewise I think my parents would rather see me happy than unhappy.
Its good you dont drink though, you are obviously a more disciplined sikh than most people.
N i disagree with your last comment, how can marriage be about a society? Its the union between TWO people the rest is just on the outside. Its about LOVE between TWO people, something which no one else can interfere with. If you let anyone else into that bubble it will burst!
Of course take advice from people, parents etc, but end of the day, follow your heart, your heart is your strength and if you dont whats the point of living?
|
|
|
Post by bham da jatt on Mar 29, 2005 20:17:12 GMT
hey precious, thanks for appreciating the feedback. shame u cant write back to all of the points, would have been interesting to know ur opinions.
n no, i dont find them offensive, uve raised ur opinions, n ive answered to them!
well u obviously cant hold onto ur religious beliefs if ur not strong, n yes quite a lot of youngsters r like that now, but not all. n yes religion is dyin in general, not just Sikhi.
no u shouldnt be forced into a religion precious but u r born in one im affraid to say. had i not been born into a sikh family but a christian one, i would have followed that one as no1 would have told me what Sikhi holds. its ur parents who decide which religion they want u to learn more about.
i have a great interest in religions n ive read sooo much about all of them, but im still proud to be Sikh, but like i said a muslim would probs say that about their religion.
what is religion? religion is belief n for u to say u have ur own beliefs, thats such a tru comment to say and then further for u to say ur beliefs say all should b treated equally, then surprise surprise, thats exactly what Guru Nanak Dev Ji said, so maybe ur beliefs r extending from Guru Ji's teachings??
yes im sure ur parents want to see u happy, so do mine and thats y they wouldnt be happy me marrying out of race - thanks mum n dad for making me realise whats right for me...nahin?
drinking is quite strict in Sikhi, n for those ppl who can override their stupid sterotypical panjabi view of things, good for u, im with u lol.
fine u disagree with my last point. y is it about society n not 2 ppl, well quite simple really: we dont live on a desert island with jus "me n u". other ppl live in this world n they all have a say, we cant stop that. like u speak freely, so does everyone else, jus the way things r hunna?
those who dont listen to others, not even their head but just their heart r destined to failure hun....mark my words!
|
|
|
Post by precious on Mar 29, 2005 20:38:15 GMT
Ah man, im really listening to what your saying and trust me it is making me think about things, i may be stubborn but i can listen to other people. Really appreciate your valid comments!
But hey I totally agree with your last point 100%. But expanding on it, I think you SHOULD listen to what people around you are saying, and take note of whats going on around you. I HAVE TO ADMIT, SOMETIMES i DO GET CAUGHT UP IN MY OWN WORLD! BUT, i think your end descision should be your own, from your heart!
To be honest if I had the strength to follow siKhi properly i would, I think its a beautiful religion. Thats why ive chosen to follow the good points about sikhi like everyone being equal.
Drinking, having sex with whoever, being a Punjabi chuk de phatteh jatt isnt what sikhi is about. Im not saying that your like that cos i dont know you, but many sikhs are and have been for many many many years. I just have no respect for that.
End of the day, I admit that i am weak and dont have the discipline a religion teaches, so I have chosen not to disrespect religion and not follow it. Funny thing is I can admit this, and live my life openly, I just wish other people would be true to themselves and do the same.
I may not know everything about sikhi but i have read the words of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and that is what gives me strength to live my life, because I tuely believe in every word.
xxx
|
|
|
Post by bham da jatt on Mar 29, 2005 20:52:02 GMT
hey hun
ur using this "making decision from ur own heart" comment which is really making me worried about u. no1 in this world can live succssfully by making decisions from their own heart. the only way that would work is if everyone was like that, n unfortunately that is not the case, is it?
no respect for what? u said it urself...for those stupud ppl that think drinking is all good. well surprise hun, i dont have any respect for them either. may i suggest rather than looking at those ppl to know what our religion is about, how about reading some religious books, read the translation of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, im sure u could get it off the net somewhere n if there is a single point u disagree with, then come back to me. im so sure u wont. instead ull be like "wow, so this is what Sikhi is about"
im glad uve admitted that uve been weak in following ur religion, but its never too late. if u have the desire to learn about ur religion, u can do that at any time. not exactly related, but btw, i dont think ur racist at all. remembered some of the earlier comments made.
wow....i didnt read ur last comment till now. there u r, uve just said what ive said. its all there hun, its a matter of learning more of it. good luck.
take care
bham da jatt
x
|
|
|
Post by precious on Mar 29, 2005 21:00:29 GMT
yeah so if i believe in what sikhi teaches whats wrong with following it and believing that everyone is equal. So what you saying we should move away from religion to make our parents happy?
|
|
|
Post by bham da jatt on Mar 29, 2005 21:08:59 GMT
hun, i dont think u read what i wrote properly. try again....
|
|
|
Post by precious on Mar 29, 2005 21:11:47 GMT
sorry im not saying thats what you said, i was just putting that question to you. My point is what do you think i should do then? Be a true sikh, a fake sikh or a n in between sikh, or not a sikh?
|
|
|
Post by DesiBabe on Mar 30, 2005 20:20:55 GMT
lol Precious you seem to be very self centered. This isnt an agony aunt thread, where everything revolves around you. You have already voiced your opinion but you keep making the same old arguments everytime an Asian says thay don't believe in dating or marrying outside their culture.
Fair enough believe in what you what to believe, but please change the record and respect other choices. All I can say is the majority can't be all wrong!
A Sikh marrying another Sikh, is not a tradition, its a choice they have both made. And by doing so, it doesnt make them a "fake Sikh", they are actually promoting and endorsing their own faith. I don't respect or even understand your objections to that lifestyle. You need to show more tolerance to that way of life.
Like I said, I have more respect for those who marry their own culture becos it shows they have adapted well to their culture. You can't argue with that because you don't see a religious Sikh marrying a non-Sikh do ya...
|
|
|
Post by bham da jatt on Mar 30, 2005 20:31:44 GMT
"p"
u cant jus say what shall i do become a true Sikh, fake one, in between or none at all.
being a Sikh is what our heart desires, not what we say we r gonna achieve. if u have the time to devote to ur relgion n start to read our Guru Ji's teaching, then u will understand how beautiful Sikhi is. thats upto u how quickly if at all u wanna learn about our dharm.
regards
bham da jatt
x
|
|
|
Post by Jasi_bham on Mar 30, 2005 20:33:34 GMT
Hey guys!!! I figure marriage is such a hassle....im gonna join a convent...become a nun that way i never have to worry bout all this stuff!!! That will really plz my parents!!! Everyones so wound up about criteria criteria criteria!!! Ive given up n am gonna leave it upto Babaji....woteva he wants will happen...im sure its all in my kismat....if im gna marry a sikh ill marry a sikh if its a gora its a gora!!!! But at the end of the day isnt our religion about treatin everyone equal...we were the first religion to recognise men n women as equals....so i think we shud b able to accept whites n blacks as equals too....so no more racism...cos its just a diss to our religion n our gurus!!! Yea race is important when gettin married....but i dont no y it has to b such a huge issue....i no a family who disowned their daughter cos she married a sikh who was a different caste...can u imagine if he had been a diff race altogether....n wot gud did that do for ne1!!! At the end of the day if marryon outside ur race gna cause aggro keep away BUT if sum1 does fall for a person frm a anova race i say accept n embrace them.....cos thats what sikhism is bout.....acceptance n tolerance!!!! Neways im out b4 i get too deep!!! TC Lv Jasi
|
|
|
Post by bham da jatt on Mar 30, 2005 20:33:45 GMT
no u dont desibabe, unless....
the other person is ready to take Sikhi upon themselves, ie take Amrit. but that certainly shows strength within the religion, respect to them.
take care x
|
|
|
Post by precious on Mar 30, 2005 21:08:29 GMT
well said jassi..
" if sum1 does fall for a person frm a anova race i say accept n embrace them.....cos thats what sikhism is bout.....acceptance n tolerance!!!!"
So bham da jatt, your religious right, why dont you tell me what sikhism is about then, if the above is wrong, cos im very very confused about what you actually do beleive in.
Fair enough your religious and cultural, but many sikhs these days are far from religious and that is my only point. hOW then can non-religious sikhs have the right to say what is right and wrong when they themselves do not have the discipline and strength to follow their own religion. You cant just be a sikh for the sakew of it, you have to reflect the values of sikhi in your life and that includes acceptance of other races.
xxxxx
|
|
|
Post by DesiBabe on Mar 30, 2005 21:15:43 GMT
Nah its aint Sikhs bein racisit. If people say we are then they would be calling all cultures racists because all of them prefer the marriage of people inside their own culture. Look at My Fat Greek Wedding for example.
Its just a preference thing to see a person marrying someone of their own culture. Sikhs can marry their own kind and stilll treat other cultures equally and so live good lives. Its the same with Muslims, Hindus, Irish, whatever!
I think people single asians out for this problem because of movies like East is East, Bend It Like Beckham etc but really its aint that big of an issue. Asians are happilly marrying their own kinds and have normal relationships with their own kind.
I mean theres asians everywhere in the UK, we multiplyin fast but you still see plenty of young asian friendships/relationships. So you cant say people are being racist just because they have a group of Asian friends etc. Again its Preference NOT Racism.
Overall, I respect other cultures's lifestyles but cherish my own.
|
|
|
Post by bham da jatt on Mar 30, 2005 21:19:53 GMT
ok hun, looks like u dont enjoy what i write cuz im gonna have to end up repeating myself lol, but ill have the "tolerance" to do that for u....
yes i will say im cultural n relgious. who said i dont accept other races, if u read above u will find i did say quite the opposite hun!
ive said in another thread i hate hypocrytes, n that comment remains where it was. but since im not being one, i dont get what ur tryin to say?
ive said before im not a perfect Sikh, ive got a lot more to learn, but im sorry, from what ur tellin me of urself, it does seem that i follow Sikhi more than urself, so r u trying to tell me something different? plz correct me?
well for what jasi said, im sorry but thats quite an immature comment. fine shes 18, so not immature for her age (sorry now i sound like a budha lol). hun...u cant jus marry some1 u love n not think about the ppl around u, it doest work like that....oh why oh why am i repeating myself precious?
nite all
bham da jatt
x
|
|
|
Post by Jasi_bham on Mar 30, 2005 21:27:15 GMT
Well jatt.....i dont appreciate bein called immature but at the end of the day its us that cause all the aggro n problems n stigma attached wiv marryin outside our own race....we bring the problems on ourselves....ok all marriages have problems n mixed marriages prob have alot more but wudnt it b easier to wrk thru them wen u love the person ur with....u r gna try n make it wrk...n i no the whole wot will the kids be dilemma....but it aint as big issue as every1 makes it out to me i have seen mixed relationships wrk.....i wud wanna marry a sikh n all but if it happens that i luv sum1 else i will marry them n i no my parents wud accept them within reason.....but if u no ur parents cant accept them then keep away!! But i really dont understand parents that r willin to disown their children for the sake of their pride.....that is not wot my religion has taught me n i no that sayin we shud accept everyone is an idealistic world BUT shudnt we try n make the world n ideal place n be the ones to set n example for others n sure ppl r gna be upset but that happens wen u make a stand!!!! Well atleast theres 1 thing we dont agree on!!! TC Lv Jasi
|
|
|
Post by bham da jatt on Mar 31, 2005 7:30:49 GMT
i dont know....still unsure that "if ur parents think its ok then its ok" scenario is good enough, sorry to be such a pain.
but anyway, if that is true, then at least i knwo my parents wont agree with it, n i respect that. out of that respect i now know not to even think about dating a girl that isnt in my religion or caste.
race just takes it into a completely new ball game, n im sure u know what id have to say about that one....
bham da jatt
x
|
|